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 Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll

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How should September 2012 draft picks be dealt with in the event of a full-season lockout?
Carry over all (or most) players from the Sept 2012 draft to Sept 2013 as John and Greg have suggested
17%
 17% [ 1 ]
Some variation on carrying draft picks forward from Sept 2012 to Sept 2013 as Matt suggested
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Do nothing and allow extra Sept 2012 draft picks to "expire worthless" as Brandon suggested. Redraft in Sept 2013 based on it being an entirely new season
83%
 83% [ 5 ]
If a lockout happens, we all throw money into a huge party that will last at least three days involving beer, wings and women
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
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Fitzsy Stars

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BeitragThema: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 11:25

I thought the wording on this poll would be a little more accurate than the one Jarrett so kindly posted. It also offers the three options that have been discussed so far, rather than just two.
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Soo Storm

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 13:07

i also dont prefer your wording. how is drafting yakupov letting your picks expire worthless


sounds like you are trying to word it in away that will benefit your option


Zuletzt von Soo Storm am 29.08.12 13:33 bearbeitet; insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet
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Soo Storm

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 13:08

how about this " use 2012 picks in 2012, and 2013 pick in 2013 regardless of lockout.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 13:29

Thats alot clearer option
Also not a big fan of using the words expire worthless as brandon has suggested.
I mean Matt u have a strong opinion, as a commish u should really be a bit more neutral.
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Soo Storm

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 13:36

also i believe john and greg were on bored with what i was saying at first. after a bunch of counters from you they provided another option. doesn't mean that is there number one suggestion.

so the way you are wording it is almost implying that they need to select that option
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 13:39

We should keep this vote simple for now
Do nothing or do something or have a wingy beer women party.
Then after we decide that we can get into all these other options of what to do.
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Fitzsy Stars

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:10

Soo Storm schrieb:
also i believe john and greg were on bored with what i was saying at first. after a bunch of counters from you they provided another option. doesn't mean that is there number one suggestion.

so the way you are wording it is almost implying that they need to select that option

A couple of points Brandon:

1) Let's look at Ray's first and second round picks: he has the 3rd overall, the 4th overall, the 10th overall, and the 19th overall. You will recognize the 3rd overall, 4th overall, and 19th overall, because they were key parts of the deal that brought Giroux and Keith to your team.

What could Ray do with these picks? If we have a season in 2012-13 he would of course use them to draft three top players that would benefit his team in 2012-13 and possibly beyond.

However, if we have a full-season lock-out and, as you suggest, we should just carry on as normal, Ray would lose the value of all three of these picks. He would get his own 8th overall pick back, but would be forced to drop either the three players/prospects that he drafted with those picks in Sept of this year OR drop three players/prospects that he kept this year. In essence, he is being forced to drop three "keeper-quality" players/prospects without having had the benefit of using them in competition. So in that sense these high draft picks are "expiring worthless," or a basic approximation of that phrase. Please note that I used quotation marks.

Also, your example of drafting this year's one "high-end, can't miss" prospect Yakupov is really moot because Ray will likely not have the chance to draft Yakupov. If Greg doesn't take him, I plan to.

2) Now let's look at my situation. I have an extra 3rd round pick, and extra 4th round pick, and two extra 5th round picks that I traded value for over the course of last year's season.

These picks really would expire worthless in every sense of the word. My plan was to use them for drafting the best available players -- players that could help my team win THIS YEAR. Their inherent value is really about what they can do for me in the current season because the players chosen would almost definitely be dropped the following season. So if I am not able to use the players with these picks in an actual competition, then they will expire worthless to me. They have no carry forward value because the players drafted with them will to be dropped (or one of my current keepers will have to be dropped in their place -- highly unlikely considering the general quality available at that stage of the draft).

Clinging to your argument that a team might potentially keep a player drafted using one of these extra picks -- in place of one of their current keepers -- doesn't really address the larger point here.

I would encourage you to think about this in the sense of fair play and what was intended when these trades were consummated. We are not in the real NHL and therefore have to come up with a solution that everybody can live with. One where nobody feels cheated. And I have to be quite honest, under your suggestion I would feel quite cheated. I can imagine Ray would feel even moreso that way.

I actually like Greg and John's suggestion the best. The easiest way to deal with this, in the event of a full season lock-out, is to simply carry over all the players drafted in Sept 2012 to the 2013-14 season, and then bump the current Sept 2013 draft picks to Sept 2014.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:22

We are not even sure Ray has a problem with this?
Or are we?

And if he does thats only one person. Plus you matt. So two ppl out of 10 so far.
Just seems like we are doing alot of talking and bickering for nothing right now.
We should finish my simple poll
Then move onto matts more descriptive poll if we need to.

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:27

As for fair play, compensating ppl who have gathered picks and punishing ppl who traded away there picks doesnt seem fair.
For example I traded away a 2013 pick to john and under ur proposed changes matt i wouldn't get a 1st rd pick now till 2015.

Also i have january picks that i traded for,if a lockout happens that will be useless. But im prepared for it. It happens, should i be compensated for those?
I dont feel i should
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:40

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
As for fair play, compensating ppl who have gathered picks and punishing ppl who traded away there picks doesnt seem fair.
For example I traded away a 2013 pick to john and under ur proposed changes matt i wouldn't get a 1st rd pick now till 2015.

Also i have january picks that i traded for,if a lockout happens that will be useless. But im prepared for it. It happens, should i be compensated for those?
I dont feel i should

John and Greg's suggestion about carrying this season's draft forward seems the most fair solution. That would mean the picks that were traded would maintain their value, as the players we draft with them could be kept until they are actually used in competition.

We haven't discussed the mid-season draft picks yet, but once we get things sorted out with the main draft we can figure that out. The best option might be to bump the Jan 2013 mid-season picks to Jan 2014, just as we would bump the Sept 2013 picks to Sept 2014.

As for looking at the other side Jarrett, I traded away my second round pick for Sept 2012 in exchange for a player upgrade. I received benefit from that player upgrade, but the person who received the second round pick would receive nothing under Brandon's suggestion. That was never the intent of the trade and therefore I don't think that is fair for them, which is why I would support John and Greg's suggestion. Under their suggestion, the person who traded for my Sept 2012 second round pick would be able to carry the player they drafted with it forward to the following year (assuming a full-season lockout).
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:45

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
We are not even sure Ray has a problem with this?
Or are we?

And if he does thats only one person. Plus you matt. So two ppl out of 10 so far.
Just seems like we are doing alot of talking and bickering for nothing right now.
We should finish my simple poll
Then move onto matts more descriptive poll if we need to.


Those who traded players/prospects to acquire more draft picks would understandably feel cheated. I have not heard from Ray about this yet (I believe he is in Hawaii this week), but I look forward to hearing his thoughts on this matter when he returns.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:55

They would receive whoever they drafted with that 2nd rd pick.
Its up to them to decide if that pick would be a keeper or noit.
Doesnt seem wasted to me.

The only fair thing ive heard so far would be go ahead with draft and just allow teams to have more keepers going into next year. If u have 3 extra picks in the first 3 rounds, then that team should get to keep 3 extra keepers.

But firstly we should finish my poll which mite result in doing nothing. Set a deadline of friday at 12pm or something. Do something or do nothing
Then we can set another deadline of say sunday at 12pm to figure out what to do if we Do decide to do anything
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:57

Maybe Ray would be understandable. Hes a very knowledgeable hockey guy. Im sure he knew that there couldve been a lockout and maybe he was willing to take that risk
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 14:59

And lastly then im finished. We have never switched a rule and implemented it days before our season starts. At least not to my knowledge, this is def something that shouldve been brought up weeks ago if not months.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:18

I have a question for either way we decide. If there is no season then will next season draft order be random? Assuming we draft this year I don't think it would necessarily be fair to have two seasons where a player gets the number one draft in a row. I would vote random in the case of no season.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:19

Trying to get up to speed on this one. Lots of reading and I hate reading!

Anyway, I do want to say that I am not a big fan of this poll and the way the options have been worded. I don't like the fact that I am voting on options that have yet to be decided exactly. Other then option three which makes me laugh a bit. Makes me want to say "Come on Brandon! How dare you suggest such a silly option!" Hehehehe.

What I am saying is that I would like to know what the first two options exactly are. How many players are being carried over in the first option and is it Gregs or Johns version? I think they are slightly different?

In option two what variation are we suggestions?

So should we not clarify what each option actually entails? It will help me make an informed decision.

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:25

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
The only fair thing ive heard so far would be go ahead with draft and just allow teams to have more keepers going into next year. If u have 3 extra picks in the first 3 rounds, then that team should get to keep 3 extra keepers.

But firstly we should finish my poll which mite result in doing nothing. Set a deadline of friday at 12pm or something. Do something or do nothing
Then we can set another deadline of say sunday at 12pm to figure out what to do if we Do decide to do anything

This is a variation on what John and Greg suggested, which I agree would be the best way to do things.

As far as your poll goes Jarrett, I will discuss with Greg and we will figure out what to do. In my mind the second poll replaced the first poll that you set up, but I would like to discuss with Greg before going any further.
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Fitzsy Stars

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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:29

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
Maybe Ray would be understandable. Hes a very knowledgeable hockey guy. Im sure he knew that there couldve been a lockout and maybe he was willing to take that risk

Anticipated reaction to Brandon's suggestion:

Matt: No

Ray: Evil or Very Mad


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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:31

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
And lastly then im finished. We have never switched a rule and implemented it days before our season starts. At least not to my knowledge, this is def something that shouldve been brought up weeks ago if not months.

We would be implementing this rule in Sept 2013, in the event of a year-long lockout.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:35

Juggernauts schrieb:
I have a question for either way we decide. If there is no season then will next season draft order be random? Assuming we draft this year I don't think it would necessarily be fair to have two seasons where a player gets the number one draft in a row. I would vote random in the case of no season.

In the scenario I proposed (option two) the draft order would be random for next year. And that is because I agree that it wouldn't be fair to have two seasons where a GM gets the number one draft pick.

However, I liked your suggestion better and voted for it (option one). In this scenario we wouldn't have a draft of any significance next year. Or we could have a very small draft for new prospects, in which case I think the draft order should be determined randomly to ensure fairness.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:36

I just feel my poll was easy, either do something or nothing.

Last time i checked the poll there was 3 votes to do nothing and 0 votes to make changes.
If 3 more ppl cote do nothing we can avoid these page long messages and mass confusion and just move past this.
Or we vote to change things, then everyone can discuss what changes those will be.
Right now it seems thst all the talk is about making changes. But the poll right now suggests nobody wants any changed.
See my point?
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:41

Team Po-Po schrieb:
Trying to get up to speed on this one. Lots of reading and I hate reading!

Anyway, I do want to say that I am not a big fan of this poll and the way the options have been worded. I don't like the fact that I am voting on options that have yet to be decided exactly. Other then option three which makes me laugh a bit. Makes me want to say "Come on Brandon! How dare you suggest such a silly option!" Hehehehe.

What I am saying is that I would like to know what the first two options exactly are. How many players are being carried over in the first option and is it Gregs or Johns version? I think they are slightly different?

In option two what variation are we suggestions?

So should we not clarify what each option actually entails? It will help me make an informed decision.


That is a very good point Gord. It seems we are still hashing out some of the details for the first two options, in part because one of the GMs who would be most affected by a year-long lockout is in Hawaii this week. I think we really need to hear back from Ray before we do anything of significance.

I am going to suggest to Greg that we scrap both polls for now, since some members having issues with the wording of both of them. I would like to hear from Ray, and I would like to receive more feedback from some of the others before we create a new poll.

It should be noted that this issue would not affect the Sept 2012 draft. It is really just trying to figure out what to do in Sept 2013 in the event of a full-year lock-out.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:42

I would say that unless we just keep the whole draft and move everything from 2013 to 2014 it would be too complicated and ugly. I hate the idea of spending a few weeks drafting and never getting to see your team play and that's the biggest reason I prefer drafting this season and keeping everyone. We could do an easy random 2 round draft next year to pick up the new prospects.

One thing to remember is that what we decide now will be the rule for the next lockout so I think we should try to make it fair. No one gets screwed by keeping the whole team intact. Except those that got or lost 2013 draft trades and they don't get screwed they just have to wait a year.
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:47

Shoreside Situations schrieb:
I just feel my poll was easy, either do something or nothing.

Last time i checked the poll there was 3 votes to do nothing and 0 votes to make changes.
If 3 more ppl cote do nothing we can avoid these page long messages and mass confusion and just move past this.
Or we vote to change things, then everyone can discuss what changes those will be.
Right now it seems thst all the talk is about making changes. But the poll right now suggests nobody wants any changed.
See my point?

As mentioned before Jarrett, I have issues with the way your poll was worded. And since some GMs have issues with the way mine was worded, I am going to suggest to my co-commissioner Greg that we cancel both polls until we hear from Ray and receive feedback from some of the other GMs about their general thoughts on this issue.

So I think it's best to say that both polls are non-binding at this point.

Once we receive feedback from some of the others, it will be easier to draw up a poll that reflects the issue we are dealing with.

Does that sound fair?
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BeitragThema: Re: Dealing with Lockout/Draft Picks Poll   29.08.12 15:47

Juggernauts schrieb:
I would say that unless we just keep the whole draft and move everything from 2013 to 2014 it would be too complicated and ugly. I hate the idea of spending a few weeks drafting and never getting to see your team play and that's the biggest reason I prefer drafting this season and keeping everyone. We could do an easy random 2 round draft next year to pick up the new prospects.

One thing to remember is that what we decide now will be the rule for the next lockout so I think we should try to make it fair. No one gets screwed by keeping the whole team intact. Except those that got or lost 2013 draft trades and they don't get screwed they just have to wait a year.

Agree with you 100% on this John. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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