Question about trades

Just a quick question about the below trade. Was there a concern that collusion was involved? Why did it need to be reviewed and approved by LM? Just curious.


Trade upheld in Nutbars du Canucks by League Manager: Matthew Jackson

The Trade has been automatically processed

A message from Matthew Jackson: After reviewing the particulars this trade has been ruled sufficiently balanced and has been upheld by League Manager Matthew Jackson.

To: Garden River Gamblers (GRG) - Scott Bell

From: Soo Storm (SS) - Brandon Lawrence

GRG traded Marian Gaborik, NYR RW to SS
GRG traded Mike Green, Wsh D to SS
GRG traded Kris Versteeg*, Fla RW to SS
SS traded Damien Brunner, Det RW to GRG
SS traded Zach Bogosian, Wpg D to GRG

When Brandon contacted me today about the trade he seemed to think the trades should have gone through based on the time the trade was made. When I looked at the time that ESPN said it would process (ie. March 4th at 5:54 pm), I figured there was some kind of unintentional delay on ESPN's part and that it should be fair game to manually put the trade through.

In any case, I put the trade through due to a lack of understanding on the exact rules on my part. Apparently Brandon also got mixed up with the rules. We both thought that ESPN had intended for the trade to be processed by 5:54 pm on Monday, March 4th, giving both he and Scott time to use the players they traded for this week.

Greg mentioned to me that this was not necessarily supposed to the case, so I am sure he will set the record straight once he's back.

If for some reason it's decided the trade was put through prematurely, I would ask Brandon and Scott to list in this thread the players they would have rostered this week if the trade HADN'T gone through. That way we can make an adjustment if it's deemed necessary.

Cheers,
Matt

Before I ramble on any further I just want to make sure that everyone knows that I really have no issue with the trade, that the trade went through and that players are in lineups etc etc. I just was very confused as to why a trade would need to be reviewed by a LM as indicated in the comments in the email that I got saying that the trade had been pushed through.

I read over the past few of these emails and it is interesting to note that they all actually indicated that the trade offer with process at approximately and then a time. I looked back on the last three trades that were allowed to follow this process and they are as follows:

Trade Accepted Trade Processed
Feb 4th 9:38pm Feb 6th 10:30pm
Feb 5th 10:24pm Feb 7th 10:30pm
Feb 28th 5:48pm Mar 2nd 6:30pm

Not sure if we can actual tell when a trade is going to be processed?

i asked matt and greg to push it through once it passed 48 hrs and 15 minutes. we made the deal so we could use those players in the following weeks matchup, and that is why scott and I rushed to bang it out prior to 7pm on saturday.

if i remember correctly this is not the first time this has been done.

one issue with not knowing when it will process is say it processed at 6:59, then it would have mixed my roster up and i could have empty spots starting when my rosters locked at 7pm.

48 hours to wait is long enough haha

My last trade took longer then 48 hrs as well.
It was like 48 Hours and 45 mins. Luckily for me tho it was a saturday and it didn't affect anything.
My question is why do we even have this 48 hour pending period? I know it's put in place to try and avoid lopsided trades.
But for 1, in the 3 years or so i've been in this league We have never had a problem with a lopsided trade.
Also if a lopsided trade was made Matt or Greg could still veto a trade if enough GM's had a problem with it.
I dont think the guys in our league are even on the site every 2nd day or so anyways, so even if a trade went through that was lopsided what are the chances all 8 other gms make it to the site within the time period and veto the trade.
Maybe this is someting that can be discussed again in the future. It would be nice to be able to make a trade any day you want and not have to worry about when it will be processed

i like the idea of banginig out a deal monday at 630 and having those guys start for your team right away!

With most of the GMs working monday to friday too, usually most of the action takes place on the weekend, Say a Saturday. Well if you dont get a trade done by Saturday at like 630PM. Your waiting an additional 9 days to see your new guys.
With that being said, i dont mean if you make a trade Wednesday that you should get those new guys and be able to put them in your roster Thursday. That all stays the same.
The power to veto a trade will stay the same if enough guys feel the trades Lopsided then it can still be veto'd.
Lets just eliminate the 48 pending period, for next year as it's too late this year.....or is it?

In my mind there shouldn't be an issue with this. There has never been an issue with collusion in this league, and when you start down the road of vetoing trades it becomes a very slippery slope indeed.

I think the only issue Greg had was that we let ESPN manage the trade process. I think we had agreed to that at some point last year.

However, as was stated, the time that ESPN takes to push through trades does seem to have some inconsistencies, which is why I pushed through the trade yesterday. The trade had been done 48 hours earlier, which is a reasonable length of time to keep everyone happy.

I think my actions should stand, and that any trades made before Saturday at 6:30 pm should be allowed to get pushed through if ESPN hasn't done so automatically.

This seems the only fair way of doing things since ESPN is a bit inconsistent with how they manage the trades.

I think the 2-day wait is so that every team has a chance to at least see the trade, and that it is a reasonable amount of time for them to see. If a team doesn't see it in that alloted amount of time, then it is their own fault.

In one of my other leagues where I am the commissioner, I usually push a trade through the same day if I see that at least 4 teams have voted and accepted the trade. Perhaps this should be the guideline.

Just a suggestion, because in this sense, you know the majority of teams have seen the trade and that it would go through because of the number of accepted votes.

Matt just a question, does ESPN have a setting to just allow trades to instantly go through? Or is it set at 48 hrs. Therefore a commish would always have to push trades through?

All trades will be posted three times for everyone to see. Once on the forum here and twice on ESPN. Once when trade first happens and then again when its processed.

So i dont really see a need at all for the 48 hrs period.

There has been a long debate about this Jarrett, and it seems that most people in the past have preferred a 48-hour wait period.

The thing I feel is most important is that it's a consistent wait period across the board, so that each team is on a level playing field. It's nice when you make a deal if you know when those new players will be available to you.

I dont have a big issue with this. I dont really care what we do and lastly im not asking anybody to make a change right now. Maybe something that can be brought up again in the offseason.

Im just voicing an opinion of why i personally dont like it. The 48 hr waiting period doesnt hurt or help anybody. No trade will ever get veto'd. Without it at least u would know that when u make a trade you will get ur players right away not 48 hrs and then some.

Id be interested to see why people think its a good idea? In any other league i think its a must, but we got a great group of guys here.

Thats all. This was something i was gonna bring up in offseason, just so happens Gord made a post that it somewhat relates too.

I can see both viewpoints. But as you suggest, it's perhaps something we can debate again in the off-season.

Ray offers an interesting alternative, although when teams start voting on trades it does lead to a rather slippery slope again.

All is well Matt, thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

On my way to Detroit to let the festivities begin.
Pistons game tomorrow, Red Wings thursday!!

we voted on this last year to just let ESPN do the trades on their time line. There was an issue where if we can't contact a LM then we would not be able to push the trade through so there was an advantage for LMs.

We also voted to allow this time for managers to decide if they want to vote for veto.

With us being a weekly league i guess the 48hrs period really doesnt make a difference. Even without it, your waiting till Monday to use your new guys anyways.

Only problem is that saturday 630pm trade and if the league is ok with pushing those through so that it fits ur Monday lineup thats all that matters.

So is that a new thing? If you make a trade on the weekend the Commish can push the trade through so you can use them on monday?
Say i make a trade Sunday afternoon same rules apply?

we used to do it. Then we had a vote to stop pushing trades through and allow time to veto a trade and just let the league time line of 2 days hold. Also eliminating any advantage to LMs. If you make a trade less than 49 hours before mondays games you just have to wait a week to use them.

Well to be perfectly honest I am still a bit unsure as to why the trade was pushed through but I am passed that.

I guess I would just like to have clarified the following.

Are we going by the website and their approximate 24 hour timeline to process trades as we have been doing as long as I have been involved in the league OR are we saying it is exactly 24 hours and in that case in the even of a trade similar to this one it will be pushed through. This would meant that one of the LMs would have to monitor all trades, which I am sure they are doing, and make sure they are pushed through accordingly. It would not be the trading teams responsibility to have to contact a LM to make sure this is done.

Now as far the this 24 hr waiting period - to be perfectly honest since I started in the league I have found this entire thing a bit humorous. We have a two day time period so the trade can be "reviewed" by everyone to ensure that the trade is far and that there is no collusion. Thats not the funny part. What I find funny is that people have made it clear that they want no part in vetoing trades, that trades will never be vetoed and that if a trade was ever vetoed they would quit the league(previous posts prior to my joining).

And in the off chance that someone does raise an issue of a lopsided trade which was done(previous post again ) it was determined that it could not be determined until years after the trade if it was an unfair or lopsided trade.

So to end.........There is no logical reason that I can to wait more then a click of button to have a trade completed, accepted and processed.

I tend to side with the no-wait period on trades, but as mentioned, we discussed this as a league in the past and it was decided to wait 48 hours for trades to process.

As far as I am concerned, based on what I am hearing, my pushing through the trade was within the bounds of our current rules because the trade was accepted before 7:00 pm on Saturday.

As mentioned, ESPN doesn't seem to have an exact set time for when the trades are officially processed, and I think as far as it's possible, LMs should be allowed to push through the trades based on this 48 hour wait period if ESPN hasn't done so already.

This approach seems the fairest for everyone involved.

As John mentioned, the trouble with LMs pushing through trades is that it is not consistent. Matt and I are not always available and that could potentially create some messiness. Matt, will in the near future, actually never be available because he will be knee deep in poop and cleaning spit up off the upholstery.

I would have no problem having trades go through instantly, but this is something for the off season I believe. We have never had a suspicious trade in our fine league. We have had some stinkers, but never a dicey trade.

From this point on I suggest we let ESPN do it. If it is 48 hours one time and 48 hours and 12 minutes the next I don't think that is any big deal. We just have to get our trading done a tad earlier.

As for next season, I am all ears.

Im glad we could all get together and have this fine duscussions.
Lets revisit in offseason.
We should prolly be worrying about our playoff format right now lol.

OK so we have the two LMs disagreeing. One says exactly 48hrs and the other ESPN doing it regardless of the exact time.

Which one?

I will accede to Greg on this one.

Now don't be so crotchety Gord. We are just talking it out. As it stands right now, we have what we voted on, which was letting ESPN do the dirty work for us.

My suggestion is to stick with that until a majority of GMs want to do it otherwise. What happened this week was just a little blooper really and one that played no role in the lineups in all likelihood. I don't think that we should get excited about it at all.

To be honest ....... we have bigger fish to fry and that is what to do with the playoffs.

And I have been thinking about that ......