NUTBARS DU CANUCKS KEEPER LEAGUE FORUM
 
StartseiteFAQSuchenMitgliederNutzergruppenAnmeldenLogin

Austausch | 
 

 The Conscience and the Commissioner.

Vorheriges Thema anzeigen Nächstes Thema anzeigen Nach unten 
AutorNachricht
Desolation Row
Admin
avatar

Number of posts : 3359
Age : 47
Location : Chur, CH
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   07.05.13 21:40

Well, it seems to me that it is time to bring this moist, rather odious, somewhat soiled matter to a close.  We all have better things to do than to ponder this matter at any greater length.  

Look, if you will, at the following chart:

NEW FORMAT          
1-Scott      
2-Jarrett    
3-Greg        
4-Gord        
5-Brandon    
6-Scoop      
7-Chris        
8-Ray          
9-John        
10-Matt      

ORIGINAL FORMAT
1-Jarrett    
2-Scott    
3-Chris      
4-Ray      
5-Gord      
6-Scoop    
7-Greg      
8-Brandon  
9-John        
10-Matt    

The biggest losers under the new format are Chris and Ray.  The biggest winners under the new format are Brandon and myself.  The other GMs are more or less unaffected.

My personal opinion on the matter is the following:

We discussed the new format.  We pondered the new format.  We voted on the new format.  We implemented the new format.  If said format has failed us, we live with the consequences, we learn from them, we make corrections and we move forward.  

However, since I am wearing The Commissioners Badge in this fine league, I must consider this dilemma from another angle, and I am rather uncomfortable with the fact that within the bundle of teams ranked 3-8, the two worst teams (Ray, Chris) have ended up with the worst possible draft picks, while the two best teams within the bundle of teams ranked 3-8 (Brandon, Greg) have ended up with very high draft picks.

To soil the linen even further, it seems as though no other GM has benefited more from this new format that myself.  No wonder I dreamed it up!

So, with that said, I propose that we do the following:

Draft Order

To be determined as in the past:  inverse order of regular season placement.

Keeper Totals

To be determined under the rules of the new format.  

1st - 10
2nd - 11
3rd - 8th - 12
9th-10th - 13

I hope that everyone can work with this proposed solution.  It will be nice to see this chapter come to an end.

G


Zuletzt von Desolation Row am 05.07.13 0:37 bearbeitet; insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://gkcandjlt.blogspot.com/ Online
Fitzsy Stars

avatar

Number of posts : 3578
Location : Vancouver, BC
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   07.05.13 22:26

I think this is the right and most honest way to handle this rather delicate subject Greg. Kudos to you! Smile
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://www.summitstudios.biz
Soo Storm

avatar

Number of posts : 1950
Age : 31
Location : Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Registration date : 27.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   07.05.13 22:36

Im fine with this solution being passed


on a side note, i traded away my first round pick. I would actually benefit more with gregs new solution proposed since my 1st pick I get in the 2nd round will be higher.


but if we were to vote, my vote would be to keep the rules voted upon last year and not make any new major changes to this Septembers draft order
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Team Po-Po

avatar

Number of posts : 212
Registration date : 08.12.11

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   07.05.13 23:29

So just to clarify.......is this a temporary solution being suggested to fix the big mess that you have created here Mr Chapler?

I have the same personal feelings about staying the course however to maintain a harmonious working relationship with everyone I will not object to making changes.

However if this is just a temp solution I will say no. I think we have the time to decide once and for all what process we are going to use, hammer it out to make sure everyone is on the same page and move on. This way were are not doing this all over again at the end of next year.

Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Desolation Row
Admin
avatar

Number of posts : 3359
Age : 47
Location : Chur, CH
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   08.05.13 9:33

The trouble with that approach my good man, is that GMs will in all likelihood evaluate and vote upon a proposed solution depending on how it might effect their draft position in our upcoming September draft.

What I have proposed is indeed a temporary solution. It puts the fire out if you will. Once that is taken care of, we can start to work through some ideas for a new format.

And I have loads of them! I can hardly wait to unleash them on you all.

Love and Kisses
G
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://gkcandjlt.blogspot.com/ Online
Fire & Fury

avatar

Number of posts : 2592
Age : 57
Location : Middle Village, New York
Registration date : 26.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   08.05.13 11:17

I know some concern is that GMs lose interest after they are out of the playoff hunt or lose in the first round.

I will be willing to try this next year. This would involve my team and whoever I would be playing in the consolation round(s).

Something along these lines, only if my opponent agrees of course. We both put up say a 4th round pick and winner gets the extra pick. Could be a fifth round, 6th round, 3rd round, any round really.

Or there could just be side bets. You know, NY Cheesecake for Canadian bacon, Blue for Buds, the list is infinite, but absolutely no gambling away of children. I have enough already.

Anyway, for those who are interested, we can try this next year. I'm willing to do something like that, FYI. And this way it adds a little more drama to the otherwise meaningless games, especially if you can grab anotehr 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Fire & Fury

avatar

Number of posts : 2592
Age : 57
Location : Middle Village, New York
Registration date : 26.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   08.05.13 11:27

What I don't understand is why do people want to change the way a draft order, that has been in existence since the beginning of hockey probably, when it works just fine?

Is it too boring? Do we not trust each other?

Again I ask, why do we continue to try and make thigns more difficult?

I kind of believe everyone here is very competitve and always tries to win, and we just have to hope that the owners continue to keep up with their due diligence in putting forth their best efforts week-in and week-out, plain and simple. If we don't have that, then what's the sense of building this league with all these intricate rules. KISS-keep it simple stupid...and that is absoutely not in reference to anyone present, in the past or in the future.

When Rich and Christina fell off the face of the Earth, Matt & Greg took care of it, and they will continue to take care of future matters. That's the kind of people they are.

I have my PrimePucks partner Steve dying to get into this league because he hears how much I talk about it all the time. He has been doing fantasy hockey longer than I have and he is a diehard. He loves to trade, tinker with his team and is very competitive. I keep telling him that there isn't any room, that no one wants to leave and if something arises I'll let him know. Out of all the rest of the people I am involved with in fantasy hockey, he is the only one, along with Chris, who I would consider for such a fine league.



Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Juggernauts

avatar

Number of posts : 572
Age : 47
Location : Guelph, ON
Registration date : 28.04.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   08.05.13 14:52

When we chatted this out last year and voted I was one of the strongest voices for trying to change the original system to prevent wanting to lose, and Greg came up with the solution which I still think is brilliant and I would still vote for it. I don't see that much value in 3rd or 4th overall pick compared with what I feel we gained. I think Ray had 3rd AND 4th pick last year and still ended 8th. Also I don't feel the end of regular season standings is necessarily the best way to determine the best teams. Greg was ranked 4th but his total points for (probably a better determinant) would put him 6th. The point I'm making is that it's pretty random and lucky as it is where we stand at the end of regular season.... it just gives us an idea of approximately where we stand.

Now what I see we gained with our new voted system last year... No reason to ever want to lose. If it's the last week and 9th plays 10th and their records are even than with the old system they both want to lose to get first overall pick. New system they both want to win because the higher the points they put up the better chance to get first. Also if someone forgets to put in their lineup they are not rewarded. If someone isn't checking and they have an injured player they put in than they are not rewarded. It just takes it out of your hands which even if I trusted everyone it just makes it more fun to always want to win and always benefit from winning.

I see us as all equal managers in this pool. I don't need some system that always helps the weaker teams. If I end at the bottom it's because I sucked that year. I think with our system we voted in it helps the bottom guys but doesn't over due it. That's one reason I don't mind full keeper.... because if I suck than I deserve to lose and I won't lose interest even if I lose 10 years in a row. I want to be better not let some checks and balances help me to win.

Also I should point out that I have Jarrett's first pick next year and would greatly benefit IMO if we voted for Greg's one year emergency change. But I vote to keep the rules we voted on last year.

Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Fitzsy Stars

avatar

Number of posts : 3578
Location : Vancouver, BC
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 0:24

Juggernauts schrieb:
When we chatted this out last year and voted I was one of the strongest voices for trying to change the original system to prevent wanting to lose, and Greg came up with the solution which I still think is brilliant and I would still vote for it. I don't see that much value in 3rd or 4th overall pick compared with what I feel we gained. I think Ray had 3rd AND 4th pick last year and still ended 8th. Also I don't feel the end of regular season standings is necessarily the best way to determine the best teams. Greg was ranked 4th but his total points for (probably a better determinant) would put him 6th. The point I'm making is that it's pretty random and lucky as it is where we stand at the end of regular season.... it just gives us an idea of approximately where we stand.

Now what I see we gained with our new voted system last year... No reason to ever want to lose. If it's the last week and 9th plays 10th and their records are even than with the old system they both want to lose to get first overall pick. New system they both want to win because the higher the points they put up the better chance to get first. Also if someone forgets to put in their lineup they are not rewarded. If someone isn't checking and they have an injured player they put in than they are not rewarded. It just takes it out of your hands which even if I trusted everyone it just makes it more fun to always want to win and always benefit from winning.

I see us as all equal managers in this pool. I don't need some system that always helps the weaker teams. If I end at the bottom it's because I sucked that year. I think with our system we voted in it helps the bottom guys but doesn't over due it. That's one reason I don't mind full keeper.... because if I suck than I deserve to lose and I won't lose interest even if I lose 10 years in a row. I want to be better not let some checks and balances help me to win.

Also I should point out that I have Jarrett's first pick next year and would greatly benefit IMO if we voted for Greg's one year emergency change. But I vote to keep the rules we voted on last year.


I think this is just a really tough sell John, because it's not perceived as being fair. Slant it however you want to, this is not how draft orders are determined in most fantasy hockey leagues of which I'm familiar with. Nor does the NHL determine draft order in such a convoluted way.

Moreover, does a team at the bottom of the heap in the NHL -- already out of playoff contention -- hope they receive a higher draft pick? Of course they do. Just ask all those Edmontonians who invented phrases like "Fall for Hall."

So this whole issue of trying to prevent "never wanting to lose" seems a tad overblown from my perspective -- what we ended up losing is harmony within the league.

I again second what Ray had to say: simple is better.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://www.summitstudios.biz
Juggernauts

avatar

Number of posts : 572
Age : 47
Location : Guelph, ON
Registration date : 28.04.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 5:17

It wasn't a hard sell last year, it was discussed and these were the same examples used and it got a 9-1 vote for it. And most importantly it actually worked. I don't think anyone wanted to lose. There was no benefit to lose. We all tried hard and the bottom two teams got first and second pick. The playoff plan was last minute and maybe wasn't the best idea to balance teams but that doesn't mean the rest of the plan didn't work just fine. I don't know if Jarrett would feel slighted if he didn't trade away his pick but we can all see how it works. Lets just take the playoff part out. It Still stops wanting to lose.

And we didn't lose harmony in the league, it just shifted to different people. When it was brought up last year there were GMs that agreed and wanted it fixed, I wasn't the only one that didn't like tanking/wanting to lose so we discussed what to do and we voted. We had disharmony at the beginning of the season on what to do if there wasn't a season, we discussed what to do and we voted. We had disharmony when those two GMs two years ago stopped managing their team, we discussed what to do and we voted. There has always been some disharmony in this league, but we discuss then we vote. No difference this time. For my part I think making rules retroactively because someone didn't understand what they voted on or didn't foresee something isn't a good reason. It wasn't a disaster, it just moved someone from 3rd pick to 8th, 4th pick to 7th. There will always be bumps in the road but we always discuss and vote. That's the best part of this league.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Shoreside Snipers

avatar

Number of posts : 1238
Age : 33
Location : Wawa
Registration date : 17.09.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 9:30

This seems like its getting a but carried away
Its been going on for over a week now.
Everyone has voiced there opinions maybe its time to vote on this and get it over or move on to the next topic at hand and revist this in a little.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Fitzsy Stars

avatar

Number of posts : 3578
Location : Vancouver, BC
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 12:13

We've already made a decision on how to handle this situation for this year. As Greg so eloquently stated at the beginning of this thread:

Draft Order

To be determined as in the past: inverse order of regular season placement.

Keeper Totals

To be determined under the rules of the new format.

1st - 10
2nd - 11
3rd - 8th - 12
9th-10th - 13


I think this is a good compromise for this year. Now we just have to determine how we're going to proceed for future years.

Before you start a poll Jarrett, we should figure out exactly what the parameters should be. The last thing we want is to dive deeper into this mess. What we want is a well-thought-out long term solution that everybody understands before they vote. Considering the surprise we ended up with this year, I think when people vote they will be a little more cautious about what they vote for.

I don't think there is anybody in this fine league who, had they finished in 8th place during the regular season and then gotten handily beat in the first round of the playoffs, would be satisfied with the 8th overall pick in the next year's draft (rather than the third). It seems pretty clear that the system voted in last year is not working if something like that is allowed to happen. In the first round, there can be a big difference in the quality of player between 3rd overall and 8th overall pick.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://www.summitstudios.biz
Fitzsy Stars

avatar

Number of posts : 3578
Location : Vancouver, BC
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 12:25

I am curious to see how everyone in this league would feel if they were in Ray's position. Considering how the rule we voted upon last year is set up, it's quite likely that future 7th and 8th place finishers could end up in a similar situation: ie. they could end up with a 7th or 8th overall pick instead of a 3rd or 4th overall pick in the next draft.

I've set up a poll to vote on this issue, more out of curiosity than anything. I believe it will guide us when we decide on how to design a strategy for calculating future draft orders.

Vote "yes" if you feel this outcome would be fair for YOUR team. Vote "no" if you feel this outcome would NOT be fair for YOUR team.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://www.summitstudios.biz
Juggernauts

avatar

Number of posts : 572
Age : 47
Location : Guelph, ON
Registration date : 28.04.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 12:38

I think we still have to decide if we want to accept Greg's proposal. If we lose the only thing in this league that gives it it's integrity then it will buckle in no time. So we still have to vote on it. I vote we keep the rule the same as originally voted on for this seasons draft order.

I can accept being in the minority but lets vote on it.
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Shoreside Snipers

avatar

Number of posts : 1238
Age : 33
Location : Wawa
Registration date : 17.09.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 15:11

Ray point makes perfect sense. The rule has not worked
Just we voted on it so we should deal with the consquences.

Is it fair for Brandon Greg or Gord to now have to pick later on because of a rule that 9 people at the time voted for. 9 of us thought it was a good idea at the time, maybe we shouldve done a little more research at the time.

Anyways im done with this topic, on to the next

Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Team Po-Po

avatar

Number of posts : 212
Registration date : 08.12.11

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 15:37

If it has already been decided how we are handling this this year then why the heck are we having any polls or further discussion on this matter?

I do not see the purpose of asking everyone how they would feel to be in someone elses shoes. This appears to be a very touchy subject for some reason and doing this kind of thing can only have a negative effect on the league.

I shall not be casting a vote.



Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Shoreside Snipers

avatar

Number of posts : 1238
Age : 33
Location : Wawa
Registration date : 17.09.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 15:54

I feel the same way
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Desolation Row
Admin
avatar

Number of posts : 3359
Age : 47
Location : Chur, CH
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   09.05.13 23:11

Crimony. This topic is killing me. It is like that horrific smell that Gord and I had in our residence room in first year. It just won't go away. That said, we did eventually locate the source of the odour and it was a half empty milk carton if memory serves. I was so certain that Gord was the source, but in the end it turned out that dairy was to blame. Live and Learn.

Now speaking of living and learning, I think that we have done just that with all of the recent events in our fine league. I won't repeat all that blabber that I made on my most recent post in this thread because my calf muscles are very sore. I have the smallest calf muscles in the world and I think that it is because my gait is strange. When I walk, I don't really use my calf muscles at all. Strange. Anyhow, I have been jogging lately and it is really hammering what little I do have back there. I could talk for hours about my calves, but I better get back to business.

Where was I......

Oh ya. OK, so I am not going to repeat my initial post on this thread, but my position remains the same. John, you are one clever dude, there is no doubt about it. When I read your comments I am reminded that you are not just another pretty face. Despite all the years of heavy drug use, you are still in possession of a brain that has the power of perhaps three of mine. Maybe even four, depending on whether or not I have had access to enough coffee.

That said, it is time to put this topic to rest. Your points are valid, your prose eloquent, your calf muscles are ample, but I think we need to kill this topic before we all lose our collective marbles.

But. And I will repeat But, I think that in the future, once we have voted on a certain rule change, that we should stick with the consequences. I am not a huge fan of altering things after the fact. In the future, I propose that once a certain rule has been implemented, that we stick with it, live with it, and come the off season tweak it or trash it.

Did you guys note that clever prase? Made it up myself. Here it is again:

''Tweak it or Trash it''.

You are all welcome to use it, but let's be clear about something. I came up with it first and that must be duly noted.

Now, I think we ought to give this damn topic a few days time to just settle. In fact, I think we ought to have a little vacation from this theme. How about we all take a week off? I know I need a breather from it. After our mini vacation, I think we can start to throw around some ideas about the future.

Should be interesting to see what we come up with.

G
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen http://gkcandjlt.blogspot.com/ Online
Shoreside Snipers

avatar

Number of posts : 1238
Age : 33
Location : Wawa
Registration date : 17.09.10

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   10.05.13 7:59

Im going to Disneyland!!!!!

And bi disneyland i mean the beer store
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Fire & Fury

avatar

Number of posts : 2592
Age : 57
Location : Middle Village, New York
Registration date : 26.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   10.05.13 9:18

And DisneyWorld is the liquor Warehouse
Nach oben Nach unten
Benutzerprofil anzeigen
Gesponserte Inhalte




BeitragThema: Re: The Conscience and the Commissioner.   

Nach oben Nach unten
 
The Conscience and the Commissioner.
Vorheriges Thema anzeigen Nächstes Thema anzeigen Nach oben 
Seite 1 von 1
 Ähnliche Themen
-
» WCC Commissioner Gilleran to Retire
» We will be getting a New WCC commissioner
» NJ: FS 18x9.5 +35 WCI MT10
» New Pro 12 referee commissioner - Ed Morrison
» Commissioner's tent, Ballaarat

Befugnisse in diesem ForumSie können in diesem Forum nicht antworten
 :: League News :: League Lounge-
Gehe zu: