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 Trading of Keeper Slots

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Fitzsy Stars

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Number of posts : 3578
Location : Vancouver, BC
Registration date : 21.08.08

BeitragThema: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 14:03

Hello Everyone,

One of the things that makes this group special is the willingness to listen to each other and consider their ideas respectfully -- if at times only briefly -- before either agreeing with them or shooting them down Smile

There is one GM that has proposed a somewhat radical shift in trade policy, and to be fair I wanted to run it by everybody to see what people think.

The gist of his proposal is this: he wants to trade outright for a keeper slot.

Now if you recall, last year Greg and I did a deal that was a post keeper deal. He traded Lecavalier and Hemsky for my Kovalchuk. Since I had only ten keeper slots, the only way I would have done the deal was after keepers had been selected, meaning that I could keep both players that he was trading me for. In effect this meant that I ended up being able to keep eleven players (instead of ten), but this was balanced off somewhat by several factors:

1) Me losing the concentrated value of Kovalchuk at LW. Had this deal been done mid-season it would have been considered by many to be a reasonable exchange in value. So even though I got to keep an extra player, in exchange I lost a lot of value in one of the league's top wingers. Basically, I spread that value out over two players instead of one.

2) This move also handcuffed me in the sense that I could not engage in trade talks regarding Lecavalier and Hemsky until keepers had actually been selected and the other players dropped. This handcuffed me more than I expected.

3) I was also forced to keep both Hemsky and Lecavalier (or rather, Greg was) before passing them to me post keeper. So I didn't have a choice as to which player I kept with the extra room.

4) Post keeper trades seem to be a fairly common activity in many keeper leagues of which I'm familiar.

I emphasize these points for a post-keeper trade so that I can now contrast them with what would happen if we began trading keeper slots back and forth. As you can probably tell, I am against the direct trading of keeper slots as that seems to fly in the face of what we were trying to accomplish with this league -- that being to balance the power dynamics out long term, and to keep the league very competitive.

If we were to start trading keeper slots straight up, it would mean the really stacked teams could to an extent buy there way out of trouble at a pretty reasonable rate. Of the deal that I am aware, the one GM was planning to trade a prospect to the other GM in exchange for a keeper slot.

The GM with the extra keeper slot could then use that keeper slot on ANY player he wanted, without restrictions, thereby altering the power dynamics.

Therefore, it is my opinion that we should be allowed to negotiate post keeper deals, but should NOT be allowed to trade for keeper slots directly. I'd love to hear feedback from other GMs about this, including the guys who were interested in trading keeper slots.

As always, lets keep the dialogue respectful and constructive.

Cheers,
Matt
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Fire & Fury

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Registration date : 26.08.08

BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 14:31

Matt stated, "direct trading of keeper slots as that seems to fly in the face of what we were trying to accomplish with this league -- that being to balance the power dynamics out long term, and to keep the league very competitive."

I agree wholeheartedly with this thought process. Making changes in the essence of making the league competitive and fairly contested is always good as I, as commissioner in a league for 10 years, have made adjustments and changes(with league approval) to make the league highly competitive and fair over the course of time.

As we arrive at the conclusion of the league's second year, both which have been very entertaining and competitive, I believe that the league, as is, is situated at the right place with the right conditions to grow healthily for it's lifespan. The league already made changes after last season, and as stated above, changes are good. Making too many changes too quickly can also damage the structure of what this league is trying to accomplish.

You can obviously see the competitiveness by the way the league has been constructed in that Jason and I have made the playoffs after missing out last season. Brandon was able to put together a strong team and have an outstanding sophomore season. Keegan had an improving season. Greg, well, not much to say there. Just kidding. Greg would do alright if he didn't have to play Matt at least twice a season. So you see, the way the league is setup, it's doing exactly what it was meant to do. I would like to see what the league works out to be next year without any further changes at this time. Having a third season under the belt would surely go a long way in showing a strong foundation or if there are cracks in the foundation. I'm no engineer, but I don't see any cracks yet. The one that we had(who shall remain nameless), was fixed immediately.

Therefore, I say"NEE", I mean "nay" to the proposed amendment.

That's my thought process.

Ray
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Jason

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 15:17

I would normally say yes, but Ray swayed my opinion, for the time being I vote no eventhogh I was considering a proposal of this myself. Another year and maybe we tackle this beast head on. I actually had 2 minor proposals but they have completely eluded me at this point in time, I'll chime in with them when I remember what they are.
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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 16:15

I'm not sure what to think. I will enact my lemming rights and follow along with whatever is decided.
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Desolation Row
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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 17:49

Well said everyone. Well said.

On a related note, I move that from hence forth, our league refer to Keeper Slots as Sleeper Kots.
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Soo Storm

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 18:04

say i trade kaberle for a 2nd round pick,

then a couple weeks later i trade a prospect and that 2nd round pick for kaberle back, post keeper. its the same as basically trading for a keeper slot without actually saying its a keeper slot.

with post keeper trades rules can be manipulated and there is a grey area, so my vote is to eliminate it all together on all future trades and all teams select the number of keepers that the standings call for
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Fitzsy Stars

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 20:17

As Brandon suggests, there may be a bit of a gray area here. When we set up this league we tried to strike a balance with rules, so as to build a solid framework without getting caught up in the minutia. Our intentions were to build and maintain a very competitive league, and I think the last two years have showed this to be the case.

I feel that there's a small but important difference between post keeper trades and trading keeper slots directly, the difference being in the end goal of the GMs making the trade.

Having said this, it may be very difficult to police and I'm not sure any of us really have the stomach to do that anyway.

If it were to come down to a decision between trading both or trading neither, I would personally choose trading neither. It may not be better for my team personally, but I think it would be better for the league as a whole.
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Motley Crue

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   17.03.10 21:12

Hey guys, in my opinion i would like to keep things the way they are for now, as was mentioned earlier i think by Ray we have made changes in the past lets see how they play out before we make any more changes. Like everything else though i will agree to what ever the group decides.
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Arthur Tigers SCOOPnRED

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   22.03.10 11:40

Allowing the trading of keeper slots would potentially benefit the top teams and in part nullify the overall balancing effect that the current setup has laid out. Therefore, I tend to believe that it's not really in the best interests of all members. A perfect league sees everyone having turns on the upside and on the downside.

SCOOP
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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   02.04.10 11:51

i agree w/ scoop.... i am against this
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Jason

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   03.04.10 3:12

And I agree w/ Mike.
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Fitzsy Stars

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   03.04.10 19:16

Well, we've pretty much decided against trading keeper slots, so we can all rest easy.
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Jason

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BeitragThema: Re: Trading of Keeper Slots   05.04.10 0:20

I agree with you Matt, rest easy indeed
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